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Interview With God

We recommend that you visit the following site and view the presentation: www.interviewwithgod.com
 
 
Note: The version online now is NOT the original version, which was really a collection of eastern thought with little connection to anything in the Bible. The current version was revised to address this, as far as we can tell.

Predestination
Are we predestined to salvation? If we are, doesn’t that mean that we have no free will? That doesn’t seem fair to the people that God doesn’t choose to save. Doesn’t the Bible teach that God picks us for salvation by foreknowing our choice? That seems like a more fair position.

Alright, let me make a moderate case for predestination (I’m not a Calvinist, in the broad sense of the term, but I do believe very strongly in God’s sovereignty). I will break your question down into more detailed parts, but will try to keep the answers simple. If you have follow-up questions, please feel free to contact me again. By "predestination" here we are talking about the belief that God ultimately chooses who will be saved. In other words, we choose God because he chose us. The alternative is that God chooses us because we chose Him—our choice determines God’s choice. I will argue that our choice never determines God’s choice, which would undermine His free will and sovereignty. (Note that this is not really the right way to use the term "predestination," but it’s clearer than referring to Arminianism and Calvinism, and the goal of my answer here is clarity.)

1. If God desires all persons to be saved (Ezek. 33:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 Tim. 2:3-4), then why would He only predestine some people? If God wants everyone to be saved, then surely He has made it possible for everyone (on an equal basis) to be saved. This contradicts the idea of predestination.

 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Pet. 3:9; NASB)

 The fact that God desires all persons to be saved does not mean He has made it possible for everyone to be saved. Intuitively, I could have desires that are in tension with one another (e.g., I could desire to eat a big meal and also desire to remain skinny; just because I think it is good to enjoy myself at dinner does not mean that I could not also desire to remain in good shape). God could desire everyone to be saved, but also desire a world where only some choose Him and others reject Him. There is no contradiction here, even if it doesn’t make sense from our vantage point.

 In fact, the Bible does not teach that God has made it possible for everyone to come to Him. The Bible teaches that no one is able to come to God on their own (Rom. 3:9-11), and there is no passage teaching that God gives everyone the ability to come to Him. Actually, the Bible teaches the opposite—that we can only come to Him if He draws us first (John 6:44).

2. God’s invitation to salvation is made to everyone (Isa. 55:1; Matt. 11:28; John 3:16; 6:47; Acts 2:21; 10:43; Rom. 10:11-13), which seems to contradict the idea that salvation is only for a few people that God picks. If it’s really true that "whoever" believes can have eternal life, then doesn’t that mean that anyone could believe? Not just those who are predestined?

 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16; NASB)

 Similar to the last question, let me state that, intuitively, God could make an open invitation even if He knew some people would not (or even could not) accept it. For example, I could make an open invitation to a Tuesday evening class to join me for dinner in the cafeteria before lecture, even though I know that some of the students have class then, and could not possibly attend. My invitation would still be, "Anyone who wants to join me, let’s get some mediocre food together." Nothing from this statement implies that everyone could do so.

 God’s salvation is for "whosoever believes" (John 3:16; Rom. 10:11-13) and "everyone who calls" (Acts 2:21), but this does not mean that everyone could believe. It only means that everyone who does believe will be saved. This is especially clear in John 1:12 (read it in light of v. 13).

3. Doesn’t the Bible teach that God elects people to salvation on the basis of foreseeing that they will accept the offer of salvation (Rom. 8:29; 1 Pet. 1:1-2)? If so, then we pick God first, and God just looks ahead in time and chooses the people who will pick Him.

 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren. (Rom. 8:29; NASB)

 This is really a misinterpretation of these passages. The term "foreknew" in Rom. 8:29 and 1 Pet. 1:1-2 does not mean that God looks into the future. These verses do not say that God foreknows someone’s decision; He only foreknows people. There is no passage teaching that God "looks ahead in time." This would be a problem on many levels, because God is not in time (sorry to open that can of worms). The term "foreknow" means, literally, to have a relationship with someone ahead of time. The concept of "knowing" people, in an ancient Near-Eastern cultural context, is an expression of intimacy. When it says that God foreknows us, it means that He loved us before we were even born. In fact, God loves us from the perspective of eternity. The only other occurrence of this term "foreknow" in Romans is in Rom. 11:2, and there it clearly has the sense of God loving someone ahead of time (Paul uses it of Israel). It is a relational term, and means to know (relationally) someone in an earlier time, not to foresee their choices. God predestines us because of His love, not because of our choices.

 If you think about it, knowing a person is different from knowing their decisions. I know God (in the sense that I have a relationship with Him), but I don’t know what decisions God is going to make. It’s the former sense that Paul is focusing on in Rom. 8:29. God is intellectually aware of everything, but this knowledge does not determine His choices. Biblically, He picks us because He loves us, and for no other reason.

4. This just isn’t fair! If predestination is true, then people are not really free to accept or reject Christ. If God’s will determines our choice, then we have no freedom at all. It’s also unloving, because it implies that God not only chooses people to go to heaven, but that He chooses everyone else to go to hell. So this view is unfair and unloving.

 Okay, let’s break this down. When you say that predestination implies that we are not free, I might agree with you. It depends on what you mean by "free." If by "free" you mean that people have the choice to both accept and reject Jesus, then this is probably right—people are not free. But I would like to argue that this isn’t the right definition of freedom. Being "free" isn’t about having choices; freedom is being able to do what you want to do (without compulsion). So I would state, very definitely, that sinners freely reject Christ (they want to reject Him, and do so). Those who are predestined freely accept Jesus (they want to accept Him and do so). The fact that neither has the choice to follow the opposite destiny does not mean they are not free, because they don’t want the other alternative.

 Here’s an intuitive example. Let’s say you try to talk me into going scuba diving, and I decide not to go (let’s say I am uneasy about being deep in the ocean). That’s a free decision, right? Now add to that the fact (unknown to both of us) that I have a medical condition that makes it impossible for me to endure water pressure beyond 10 or 20 feet. In fact, I would have no choice about going scuba diving, right? I don’t have the choice to do it. But I am still free, because I don’t want to go. I would only lose freedom if I wanted to go, but was then prevented by my medical condition. Let me point out that predestination is totally compatible with this definition of freedom. People that God picks for salvation freely choose Him (they want Him), but they cannot choose to live eternity apart from Him. That’s okay though, because they don’t want to do that.

 God Himself is a perfect illustration of this kind of freedom. God doesn’t have a choice about being holy; He cannot sin, but that doesn’t mean He is not free. God is the most free being in the universe; nothing keeps Him from what He wants to do. But He doesn’t want to sin, so the fact that He can’t choose to sin doesn’t affect His freedom at all. Similarly, my position limits choices, but not freedom.

 On the point of whether this view makes God unloving, because He doesn’t choose to send everyone to heaven, let me state that there are two positions on predestination (as I have explained it), and only one of them argues that God chooses people to go to hell. This is called double predestination. In my view, though, everyone is freely choosing to reject Him and therefore go to hell, and God simply chooses some of those people for salvation. The ones that end up in hell choose to go there without God’s involvement (they go freely, because they don’t want to be with God). On questions of "fairness," see Rom. 9:19-21, which suggests that questions of fairness with respect to God choosing people apart from what they do are invalid. Why God does what He does is not something that is explained to us. I have a thought about why God doesn’t choose everyone to be with Him, but really, it’s His plan, and He doesn’t give us the grand design.

5. Your view makes evangelism completely unnecessary. If God has already chosen who will be saved, then what is the point in witnessing to anyone? Why go into the mission field? The same number of people will be saved in either case.

 The fact that God chooses people to salvation does not mean that our efforts to win the lost are irrelevant. God not only ordains the end, but also the means to the end. The way that His choices come to pass is through the work of His people. So our efforts are significant. This is the same thing that happens in prayer. We ask, "Why pray, if God is going to do what He wants anyway?" The answer is that God chooses to do His will through the prayers of His people. Prayer doesn’t do anything (by itself); God does things through prayer. In both cases, our efforts don’t make it happen, but both are used by God as part of His sovereign plan. So my view does not negate missions or evangelism, though I have to admit that the same number people will be saved whether I obey God or not. The real question is not, "Will people go to hell if I don’t share Christ with them," but rather, "Do I want to be used by God to bring people into the kingdom?"

 Let me conclude with two points in support of my view:

1. As a result of sin, no one is able to respond to any offer of grace (Eph. 2:1-3; John 6:44; Rom. 3:10-23; 2 Cor. 4:3-4).

 As it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one." (Rom 3:10-12; NASB)

 This is called "total depravity." This means that no one, in their fallen state, has any ability to seek after God or submit to His will. This goes against the view that everyone is free to accept or reject Christ. What the Bible teaches is that, without a work of the Holy Spirit, no one is free to accept God. Everyone is free, but only to reject Him (they all want to reject Him). As a result, our wills are in bondage to sin and cannot respond to any offer unless God does a special work in the heart of an individual.

2. God is utterly sovereign, and is free to do as He wills. No one makes any choices for God or holds Him accountable (Job 23:13; Ps. 115:3; Matt. 20:13-15; Rom. 9:20-21)—even choices about who will be saved. With respect to predestination, it is squarely put on God’s shoulders and not the choice of people (Eph. 1:4-5; John 6:37, 44; Acts 13:48; Romans 9:10-29).

 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48; NASB)

 Anything less than this would undermine God’s sovereignty. If our choice determines God’s choice, then He is, to that degree, not free to do as He wills. If God is free, then our choice must follow His. If this isn’t as broad a definition of "freedom" as might be hoped for, I would at least point out that God isn’t "free" in that broader sense either. God can’t sin. Those God doesn’t predestine can’t choose God. Christians can’t choose to go to hell. But we’re all free (in the sense that I explained it).

 Hopefully this discussion has brought some understanding to one of the great theological conundrums of modern times.

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